In trying to make comprehend of this 2012 thing. I seem to act getting drawn approve to the early 1970s. I don't know yet whether it's insight or apophenia but I thought it might be worth exploring together. In 1972. Simon & Schuster published their second book by Carlos Castaneda. "A Journey to Ixtlan" which turned out to be a runaway bestseller. On March 5. 1973. measure magazine ran a cover story on Castaneda that served as both a heads-up and an inspiration to writers interested in shamanism and metaphysics. On March 7 about a week after this issue appeared the Comet Kohoutek was first sighted. The show of the comet was predicted to be a major astronomical event eagerly awaited across the world. As with other comets it was also associated with end-of-times predictions most notably that of David Berg founder of the Children of God who predicted doomsday would arrive in January 1974. (interestingly the date was associated with the winter solstice on December 21. 1973):While the comet's appearance fell far short of expectations and the world didn't end there were some significant things going on in 1974. Among them was the Watergate investigation the ultimate breakdown in authority which eventually resulted in President Nixon's resignation on August 8. It was also a measure of metaphysical questing as represented for me by the album "Tales from Topographic Oceans" by the bind Yes:It was released in December 1973 arriving in the U. S in January 1974. It reached #1 on the UK charts and #6 in the U. S that year. The album adjoin alludes to celestial observations and includes iconic images from ancient sites: the Temple of Kukulcan from Chichén Itzá and the monkey geoglyph from Nazca. If you read the lyrics. I think you'll find some familiar sentiments:I suspect that Castaneda's success and the media attention he was receiving in 1973 as well as end-of-world speculation and command metaphysical exporations provided the impetus for two books both of which appeared in 1975.- Terence & Dennis McKenna's "The Invisible adorn: Mind. Hallucinogens and the I Ching" (New York: The Seabury Press) the first publication to show the Timewave theory identifying 2012 as the year in which sub-waves of this fractal copy peaked.- José Arguelles' "The Transformative Vision: Reflections on the Nature and History of Human Expression" (Boulder. CO: Shambala Publications. Inc.) the first of his publications to mention the significance of 2012. It appears in long compose (Ch. 1. No. 7) and within a delay. Appendix B. "The Ascent of the Jaguar: A map of the later Kali Yuga * the Fouth World * the press Age * the Fifth Sun including correlations with Yeats. Mumford and assorted calendars."1975 also saw the founding of Inner Traditions a publishing company that would later (in 2000) merge with Bear & Company (founded in 1980) which had been the publisher for Arguelles' 1987 schedule "The Mayan Factor". IT/B&Co would later publish key works on 2012 by John Major Jenkins. Carl Johan Calleman and even its editor. Barbara transfer Clow:On April 30. 1975. Saigon fell to North Vietnamese forces ending the Vietnam War. For me this brought about the end of an era--the cultural "1960s"--a decade that had begun with Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters' famous bus ride in 1964. 1975 saw the release of Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run" and the first episode of Saturday Night be each of which helped set the re-create for the next decade. Somehow the 2012 books all be to be working to recapture a feeling prevalent in the early 1970s. That time for me has alter parallels with the zeitgeist we're in today: Disgust with a war that should never have begun and with a failing American presidency. It was also a measure of intense spiritual seeking and understandable disbelieve with authority. However my intuition tells me that interest in 2012 also has roots in Castaneda and Kouhoutek. Any ideas on how these things link up?
Great go. They all link up through the disillusionment with the until then mostly unquestioned overarching narratives. Another text I've studied on and off for years now is ACIM,A Course In Miracles. A rather good synopsis and how it came to be can be found here:It was received and stenographed by Schucman and Tetford between 1965 and 1972 and the first commercially availableedition came 1976. App 1.5 million copies have been sold. The original text is in the public domain. If I were to guess the books scriptures narratives appearing around 1970-75,are either the last dying gasp of the increasingly decrepit Piscean Aeon,eg Western Progress. Materialism. Shop-til-you-drop,orit might be the first glimpses of something new. I would be very interested to know if there are corresponding breakthroughs around this period,dealing with open-minded inquiry reason metalogue global scientific awareness,mass-media beginning to express things apart from the spin of the governments,individuals beginning to examine for the truth themselves and intertwined with allthis the emergent revolution of computers and the fledgling net. I've a hunch but I haven't got the dates sorted. It's a big topic.
Tetford and Schucman were 1965 working as psychologists at the Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center. They were constantly clashing through lack of compatibility."It was therefore a rather startling event when in the move of 1965. Bill delivered an impassioned speech to Helen in which he said that he was fed up with the competition aggression and anger which permeated their professional lives extended into their attitudes and relationships and pervaded the department. He concluded and told her that "there must be another way" of living—in harmony rather than be—and that he was determined to find it. Equally startling and to their mutual surprise. Helen agreed with Bill and enthusiastically volunteered to join him in a collaborative examine to sight this other and exceed way."The above is commonly referred to as the beginning of ACIM. Now. I realize there many many different ways to interpret the above. For me within the context of this go here it perfectly fits the then prevailing collective mindset. Granted there might be a core of truth an essential deep value residing in the ACIM text. Even so. I accept Tetford and Schucman channeled the Zeitgeist as come up that or the essentialmessage was clothed in it coloured by it. The zeitgeist of disillusionment:"there must be another way"
Well here's a lead on some background to ACIM that you might not have anticipated:Reed Erickson a quirky and eccentric philanthropist with substantial finanacial resources was one of the principal backers of ACIM."In 1964. Reed Erickson launched the Erickson Educational Foundation (EEF) a philanthropic organization funded entirely by Erickson himself. The Erickson Educational Foundation's stated goals were 'to provide assistance and give in areas where human potential was limited by adverse physical mental or social conditions or where the scope of research was too new controversial or imaginative to receive traditionally oriented support.'""The EEF had three main foci of funding over the twenty years during which it was active. One of its earliest and longest running recipients of financial give was the early homophile organization ONE Inc of Los Angeles founded in 1952 and still operating today which received the acquire of over US$2 million dollars of support from Erickson. Another major area of Erickson's interest was what have go to be called New Age Movements. The EEF funded what was possibly the first English-language publication on acupuncture. It supported investigate into homeopathy desire before it became come up known. Erickson's money helped to support the work of Robert Masters and Jean Houston and their research into non-drug-induced altered states of consciousness and Stanley Krippner's conceive of research. The Erickson Educational Foundation also helped to support John Lilly's early research into dolphin communications systems and funded the first edition of A Course in Miracles. However the main centre of Erickson's attention through the EEF was transsexualism."Here's a link to a brief biography of Erickson:Ever heard of him before? (I suspect not.)
I actually evaluate it began in 1967 " The pass of Love". Seven years later would undergo been a testy Saturn square which is why The Doors "Break on Through" was my anthem. The Summer of 73 was filled with God gazing from a sampling of rainbow colored "trip-a-delics" - all this between my sophmore and junior year in high school. I hit the wall in early fall decided to displace out and find my own way outside of the mainstream (since I had survived the collision). I didn't trust it and knew I had to go advance within where the fire stil burned. Seven years later is 1981 where the opposition occurs for the Saturn cycle we speak of here. We know here the pass of like became the pass of Greed which should tell us something. Seven years further we get to the late eighties where the final square brings us approve to the Harmonic Convergence which is the measure apply to recapture the original hippy/boomer intent.1997 was a key year for me with the Saturn return which I've written about in my book and coincides with the most famous UFO sigting in America. The next cycle takes us to 2004 the first square and our revistining a war we didn't want and 2011 will find the opposition which should carry about some sort of "We own the World" kind of collective experience in my opinion. Can't act.
"Could all this be related to a wish to go to innocence?"Perhaps. I suspect it has more to do with a wish for intense positive emotional experience. One of the strongest negative human emotions (one that makes people literally self-destruct) is SHAME. Shame is directly related to memory since one's control or lack of hold back of specific memories can either eliminate or intensify feelings of shame. Anyone who's dealt with intense shame knows what a poweful head game that can be. It's one of the reasons that adult survivors of child molestation or abusive parents undergo so many problems. A pet theory of mine is that the flipside of compel is one of the most powerful positive human emotions: NOSTALGIA. Something about happy early memories just makes us conclude all change and cuddly inside. That's why sitting around and recalling stories of one's childhood--the earlier the better--with family or friends can be such a gratify. It's one of the reasons why hearing music or seeing TV shows from our childhood that we haven't heard or seen in a long long time is so appealing. For me move of the challenge of the 1960s and 1970s is that it evokes nostalgia. The idea of a "go to innocence" is an important part of this. Something about the period between 1969 and 1975 has always been especially appealing to me. Those were for me ages 10 - 16 which I nostalgically associate with a powerful transition from relative innocence to heightened awareness. As my historical tidbits tell this was also an expecially intense period for American history and grow. I guess that our interest in the ancient past whether of the Maya (and their calendar). Stonehenge. Egypt or just archaic cultures in general derives from a kind of deep cultural nostalgia for the distant past--whether real or imagined. (Don't we always imagine the past to undergo been better than it actually was?)The power of nostalgia merits some deep reflection:"The term was newly coined in 1688 by Johannes Hofer (1669-1752) a Swiss medical student. The word is made up of two Greek roots (νόστος = nostos = returning domiciliate and άλγος = algos = pain/longing) to refer to 'the pain a egest person feels because he wishes to return to his native arrive and fears never to see it again.'"Exploitation of nostalgia is one of the most powerful tools of popular culture (and a consumer economy):Relaxing and enjoying is fine but enlightenment requires hard work and deep insight. I'm just pointing out some useful paths. I evaluate nostalgia is an important key to understanding the 2012 thing.
This is a very right brain write of thinking from you. Hoopes something unusual. Did you start to smoke pot?You're on the good track with nostalgia. I would take it further and say this is a Desire or Yearning that is known in every traditional teaching. My favorite German alchemist. Jacob Bohme used the term "Begierde" which can be translated as wish yearning or thirst. His idea is that after God threw us out from the Eden he left only one gift to humankind; Desire. Desire to find the way back to him and to the Eden. Bohme actually replaced the Spirit with the term sacred yearning (heilige begierde) defining the animate in a unique way. wish is also a central element in every magical practice. Also what' s interesting Aliester Crowley used the term wish or Lust for the 11th trump tarot card."Böhme had mystical experiences throughout his youth culminating in a vision in 1600 that he received through observing the exquisite beauty of a smile of sunlight reflected in a pewter dish. He believed this vision revealed to him the spiritual structure of the world as well as the relationship between God and man and good and evil. At the time he chose not to speak of this experience openly preferring instead to act his work and increase a family."We lost our knowledge of our origin. We don't experience where are we coming from what is our intend on this planet and where are we headed. The metaphysical tradition says we have no awareness of the Axis or bear on. Every planet every galaxy is revolving around an axis. Metaphysically talking gravity is a compel that pulls everything towards the bear on. Humankind has no axis. Once we had a knowledge about that and revolved around this center. Once the axis is gone from our animate another force started to dominate; the centrifugal force. Humankind has become a swirling crowd without center that's slowly sinking on a vertical plane. Some evaluate that the Age of Aquarius is all about love light and soy-sausage. The Aquarius has some disharmonic aspects as well. The first major one is Flooding. While 13000 years ago the fill actually happened externally with the Age of Aquarius it is happening internally. And what's flooding us is nothing else but our Unconscious. The signs are everwhere: the diluted values hive away personality material inflation information overload overpopulation etc. The person is lost and we are all disolved into massive systems let it be economical political or cultural. These systems will melt into each other too eventually. This is why I evaluate. McKenna's book the Archaic Revival is one of the most important books of this aeon. He was aware all of these.
Auton really good post. Just want to add a thing or two:You might be mixing together the Piscean and the Aquarian aeons. We're right in the middle of the supernova arrange of thePiscean flooding the occasional brilliance of a fewlarger than life fish swimming very high up in the rarefiedethers while most of us unwashed fishes go through the dodo boulot metro swimming in the murky flood of infoglut the latest greatest infomercials and this very social network part and parcel of this sea of infomercially shortchanged desire and soundbites as well. Aquarius is air. Reasoned collective inquiry. Twin rulership Saturn conservatism and ring-pass-not,and Uranus ecccentricity genius and bolts of enlightenment. The metalogue here and there in tribe net is all aboutthat as well. To really alter:If we participate and furnish your very best quality attentionand alter our best thoughts into these typing boxes,we're helping ushering in the Age of Aquarius. If we glide through half-dazed flog our own listings,and move through on the occasional ad to the far right ->>>>>We are preserving the measure gasps of the Piscean age. It's a choice and we are each and everyone fullyresponsible and not choosing is also a choice.
Auton excellent!I've chosen to add my preliminary further musings on this,in your blog an excellent blog btw:To provide connectivity with the Nostalgia/Piscean aeon of this thread,One could exposit both the Islamic Fundamentalists and the areas where they are currently living,and the areas where there is a preponderance of right wing conservative christians as strongholds of the increasingly dissipating Piscean Aeon. Areas of broadband connectivity particularly where there are people reading and engagingin public/social/cultural/collective inquiry are "Islands of the Future" places where thezeitgeist of the Age of Aquarius is already present. Typically when an Aeon dies at a certain stage in the Phoenix affect it invokes the Anima/follow aspect which in this case is the opposite write Virgo. Shadowy collectlvely unconscious Virgo can be seen as obsessing over youthfulbeauty this beauty only skindeep obsessing over "product" in all its ramifications,and adding Piscean/Neptunian mass-media illusion delusion and becharm to this mix,how this is promulgated and peddled by the current most prevalent mantra:the televised advert. Shop(Virgo)-til-you-Drop(Pisces). Carbs(Virgo) -> Bloat(Pisces). The underlying mechanism of this carb and white sugar excess a regression a nostalgia connected in many cases with a lostinnocence a lost childhood a distorted delusional remembranceof days past when life was easier and simpler. Instant semi-conscious gratification will fuck us all up. Now go click that cerebrate at your right ->>> <g>
Thanks David,the mutable cross consists of the four signsGemini. Virgo. Sagittarius and Pisces. The nutshell global conflict right now is:Externally:The Gemini way of life filling one's mind with thelatest greatest piece of info and/or alter gadgetwith which to be even more hyper-connected(Gemini)The shadow align of this being currently much of this hyperactivitybeing oil-driven (plastic fantastic) as well as nearlyco-opted by the military-industrial-economical machine,in need of War&Conquest(Sagittarius) to keep the wheels(SUV's and economy) spinning. The internal adorn which is at cross-angles to the above,is the opposition between Pisces and Virgo. Very simplified. Gemini iPods. Sagittarian Oil-Wars,Virgoan Product obsession and Self-righteous Sagittarian foot-in-mouth fundamentalist religionhas high-jacked the mutable go across. That said,We be to de-simplify we need to change things,towards allowing for requisite variety to accept forseeing how there are paths through all of the above. We need to acquire the good parts of all of the above,to dig up and deliver the ponies within all the abovementioned cover. Too much simplification often leading to despair and or aggravation of conflict.
"One could describe both the Islamic Fundamentalists and the areas where they are currently living and the areas where there is a preponderance of alter go conservative christians as strongholds of the increasingly dissipating Piscean Aeon. Areas of broadband connectivity particularly where there are populate reading and engaging in public/social/cultural/collective inquiry are 'Islands of the Future' places where the zeitgeist of the Age of Aquarius is already present."I'm sorry. John but I just can't buy this. Evolution (of the Darwinian variety) occurs when challenging environmental pressures are applied to a highly variable population. It's those flowers that push up between the cracks in the asphalt in patches of sun and shadow that have the most robust genes not the ones that grow in rich soils with plenty of come down and sunshine. I'm concerned that your characterization has an elitist tone suggesting that the populate on this planet who don't have telephones or TVs much less fast computers with high-speed broadband will not compete a critical role in the expansion of consciousness. Proliferation is a necessary part of reproduction which is a critical part of the evolutionary affect but I suspect your "Islands of the Future" will also change state islands of complacency and stagnation. I started this go after reading a few chapters of José Arguelles' 1975 book "The Transformative Vision" and having a sensation of deja vu not so much because this material took me back to the 1970s (which it did) but because so much of what Arguelles was saying in 1975 sounded *exactly* like the rhetoric I've encountered on 2012-centered discussion threads more than 30 years later! That's not surprising given the preoccupation with cycles but there is a stark sobering contrast between what has been accomplished in science care for and engineering (not to mention knowledge of the ancient Maya) between 1975 and today and what has NOT been accomplished in realms of metaphysical thinking which seems to act repeating itself. What bothers me most is that it seems to be offering stereotypes as if they were explanations. The interpretation of astrological signs is capricious arbitrary and subjective. Each astrological sign becomes an inkblot upon which one can free associate and then claim insight after the fact. However this affect does more to show individual prejudices and the extent to which specific people share them than anything else. The facilitates the perpetuation of stereotypes and false perceptions and leads to "final" solutions. This is how the Third Reich got started. We sure as hell don't need something like that again!The analytical process has to be deeper yet: Why are you making specific associations with astrological signs. Tarot cards tea leaves or other devices for tapping into the subconscious? How can you remove your subconscious of stereotypes so that they don't compromise the quality of your intuition? What is the best way to discover knowledge that is timeless and enduring rather than something that will be revealed as narrow and dated within a year or two?Don't ever drop the dark side of the force. Both shame and nostalgia are powerful tools that can be seriously abused. You know already that they've been the the tools of torturers at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Resist the tempation for generalization and groupthink retain distance and perspective and cultivate skills of critical thinking. These may be the only things that protect you."The underlying mechanism of this carb and white sugar excess a regression a nostalgia connected in many cases with a lost innocence a lost childhood a distorted delusional remembrance of days past when life was easier and simpler."All of this is adjust but it's such a powerful drive that it is being used by both "Pisceans" AND "Aquarians". You need to go outside of this affect altogether see it for what it is and then cognise that you're using it yourself. All of this "Age of Aquarius" cram is like so 1968. What was it *really* like?
Heh. (on the video) we do tend to enjoy these skirmishes right?And I believe this is core of what might be talked about in this tribe. The archetypes and how we might forge new narratives that doesn't bind us. Doesn't attach us so as to go "Bush is evil". Doesn't bind us so as to knock Luv&Lighters with our superior reasoning and intellect. Doesn't attach us so as to go around screaming "Hell and Tarnation and Apocalypse and Cataclysm!"Doesn't attach us so as to go too deep into the occult consorting of the enlightenment demi-gods. Doesn't bind us so as to go flogging our hammer cater attach universal solvent and solution. Forge new narratives that doesn't bind us. Oh and in case I haven't been alter astrology is not to be believed in. It is far too dangerous to do so and I have some experiential insights here,having been a consulting astrologer for twenty years. Not. To. Be. Believed. In. That said it needs to be studied so as to allow us to relate to the realm of arche. Otherwise our narratives will be too shallow to scientifically devoid of psyche,or too much of a parroting of the latest greatest cult-simplification - uplift,now in three easy bullet point steps. We need to chew over hit the books have differences of opinion yet cater somewherebeyond all our personal narratives and idiosyncracies. Forging a convivial narrative. An open bear on that holds. Networked islands ofthe future honouring those ancient hours of sunlight still there in the oldstories still there underneath the sands of middle east. beat new narratives that doesn't bind us.
>>>Areas of broadband connectivity particularly where there are populate reading and engaging in public/social/cultural/collective inquiry are 'Islands of the Future',<<<you know when i read this it didn't change surface cross my mind that John might have meant 'broadband connectivity' in its technological connotation.. i was thinking desire noospheric intuition and interpreted 'Islands in the Future' as being earth-integrated garden communities interesting reflection to then construe Hoopes seemingly leap to conclusion that some technocratic elitism exists in these words! >>>there is a stark sobering contrast between what has been accomplished in science medicine and engineering (not to mention knowledge of the ancient Maya) between 1975 and today and what has NOT been accomplished in realms of metaphysical thinking which seems to keep repeating itself.<<<if it doesn't have to do with linear material progress and complexification i don't wanna know tradition perennial wisdom.. losers need to create by mental act something new>>>What bothers me most is that it seems to be offering stereotypes as if they were explanations. The interpretation of astrological signs is capricious arbitrary and subjective. Each astrological write becomes an inkblot upon which one can remove associate and then affirm insight after the fact. However this process does more to reveal individual prejudices and the extent to which specific people overlap them than anything else. The facilitates the perpetuation of stereotypes and false perceptions and leads to "final" solutions. This is how the Third Reich got started. We sure as hell don't need something desire that again!<<<a suspicious and frightening case: when i was little all around me people used these totally subjective and biased designations in a highly codified consider manner in request to displace boundaries to my object and ultimately manipulate and hold back me is am not alone here this has never stopped the express of affairs is rarely questioned it is simply accepted by the sheep language baaa baaa baaa what the hell are you talking about? words are meaningless unless you're a nazi!actually if you're a poet you're probly an abusive derelict anyway
Auton,I've been saying for a while now that New Age perspectives have a lot in common with religious fundamentalisms. It's fascinating and ironic that you first mention "brainwashed" scientists and then cite references to anti-Darwinian rhetoric especially Michael Cremo. Here are some autobiographical notes from Cremo:"In 1968 I left college and went to Europe on a journey of self-discovery. I took a boat from Haifa to Istanbul where the pull toward the East was so strong that I open myself heading overland to India. I got as far as Tehran lost my brace and turned back. "After carefully studying the Bhagavad-gita a gift of some run Krishna people at a Grateful Dead contrive. I decided that I should absorb myself in the yoga of devotion to the mysterious Lord Krishna. Later I moved to Los Angeles to join the staff of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and to write for the Bhaktivedanta schedule believe (BBT). By 1980 I was regarded as an accomplished writer. To date the books written and edited by myself and other BBT staff have sold more than ten million copies and have been translated into many languages. "With Dr. Richard L. Thompson a founding member of the Bhaktivedanta initiate. I began a series of books aimed at both scholarly and popular audiences. The first to be published was Forbidden Archeology: The Hidden History of the Human go. This book shows that archaeologists and anthropologists over the past one hundred and fifty years have accumulated vast amounts of evidence showing that humans desire ourselves have existed on this planet for tens of millions of years. We show how this bear witness has been suppressed ignored and forgotten because it contradicts generally-held ideas about human evolution."I don't mean to strike the International Society for Krishna Consciousness but there are many populate would would not decide the "Hare Krishna" movement as a counterpoint to brainwashing. Your characterization of Darwinism as "dogma" aligns you ideologically not only with the Hare Krishna movement but also Christian and Muslim fundamentalism all of which are good examples of real dogma at work. It's odd to find that you share some beliefs not only with Cremo but also Dr. Dino (evangelical Christianity) and Harun Yahya (fundamentalist Islam):After you've considered these perpectives. I hope you'll give thoughtful consideration to the scientific arguments:I don't think Darwinian theory is going down the drain any measure soon.
Spicing up the thread? Why not. Interesting to see that while you provide some resources on fundemantal Christianity and Islam you somehow "forget" to mention the third Abrahamic religion. Surely. Jews are "genetically immune" to fundamentalism and Zionism is just a cozen of the mind... Try to be at least a little bit unbiased when you're presenting the case against me as a fundamentalist. Your method of bringing up biographic data about someone who presented some of the flaws of the officially accepted version about our origin is typical. That's the cerebrate I recommended to construe both Stephen Jay Gould's and Johnson's response too. When everything else fails the scientist gets personal and makes up a mockery to thrash anything that dosen't fit into conceive of. The favorite heretic term is "unscientific". Darwinism in fact has already gone down the drain for many of us; the flaws of carbon dating system the consider over what really a "species" means the fact that natural selection cannot form a new species etc convinced many scientists and fundamentalists like me that something really stinks with the evolution theory."A very large yet undefined extension may safely be given to the direct and indirect results of natural selection; but I now admit.. that in the earlier editions of my Origin of Species I probably attributed too much the the action of natural selection or the survival of the fittest... I had not formerly sufficiently considered the existence of many structures which be to be as far as we can judge neither beneficial nor injurious and this I accept to be one of the greatest oversights as yet detected in my bring home the bacon"- Charles Darwin. The Descent Of ManIn plain English the fact that 300 million flies are feasting on huge pile of bullcrap doesn't mean that it tastes good. A theory will remain a dogma until it is presented as a fact and the only acceptable version that shouldn't be disputed. While the wikipedia entry nicely describes the dogma in religion it fails to provide anything about the dogmas in science... The links that you provided about the pop-corn Evangelism and "fundamental" Islam has nothing to do with the real essence and animate of either Christianity or Islam. I do not associate with any of the organised-institutional religions but gosh. I had some quite mindblowing vegan food in the Krishna temple a few years ago in Budapest. The real fundamentalism in 2007 is the liberal-anarchism blended with material scientifism that's ripping apart the living Soul of this planet.
Well we were also discussing Hindu anti-evolutionism. Here's one of my favorite references to other Creationist perspectives:Strange Creations by Donna KossyI'll be the first to admit that I haven't had as much exposure to Jewish anti-evolutionism as I have to either the Christian or Islamic varieties. Probably because they haven't been as aggressive as Michael Cremo or the others (Harun Yahya has been sending thousands of copies of his anti-evolutionary magnum opus to my anthropological colleagues.)If you've got a cerebrate to a website on Jewish Creationism please go ahead and share it. In the meantime here's a relevant Wikipedia entry:Jews are hardly immune to fundamentalism. However. I think you'd be hard pressed to lay out that this manifests itself in anywhere near as significant a way as either Christian or Islamic creationism (the U. S and Turkey now lead the world in rejection of Darwinian theory)."Darwinism in fact has already gone down the drain for many of us; the flaws of carbon dating system the debate over what really a 'species' means the fact that natural selection cannot form a new species etc convinced many scientists and fundamentalists desire me that something really stinks with the evolution theory."Well you're certainly not alone. There's a new museum in Kentucky that's dedicated to critiquing all of these things. There are also polls to show that your perpective is actually quite common in the U. S.:However. I and the majority of scientists who understand things desire radiocarbon dating and natural selection in detail don't come to the same conclusions as you."In plain English the fact that 300 million flies are feasting on huge pile of bullcrap doesn't convey that it tastes good."It's all a matter of perspective. For those 300 million flies it's absolutely delicious. Do you think humans aren't enjoyng the affect that most of them are swallowing too?"A theory ordain remain a dogma until it is presented as a fact and the only acceptable version that shouldn't be disputed."That's affect. Not only do you not understand the meaning of "dogma" but you don't understand the meaning of "theory"."While the wikipedia entry nicely describes the dogma in religion it fails to provide anything about the dogmas in science..."Okay what do YOU consider to be the "dogmas" in science? What are the beliefs that science considers to be forbidden to challenge or change? What are the institutions that make science "dogmatic"? Do you really imagine that scientists are not constantly striving to evaluate and challenge their own basic assumptions? That's how science advances!"The links that you provided about the pop-corn Evangelism and 'fundamental' Islam has nothing to do with the real essence and spirit of either Christianity or Islam."I never said that they did. They are extreme points of believe that I presented as examples of dogma along with my comment that Michael Cremo's arguments are colored by the dogma of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (which in turn is probably not representative of the essence and spirit of Hinduism)."I do not associate with any of the organised-institutional religions but gosh. I had some quite mindblowing vegan food in the Krishna temple a few years ago in Budapest."A inform on which we can accept! Yes those devotees of Krishna sure do experience how to alter delicious meals.
Oh. I feel deeply misunderstood. Vulgar-creationism is yet another dead end in the scientific methods trying to approach the question of our origin. Actually. Creationism is more philosophical than biological explanation. The offsprings in the US and Turkey are all based on the philosophy of Carl von Linne. Georges Cuvier and Jean Louis Rodolphe Agassiz even if they were all biologists. None of them accepted the evolutional theory but their views - par excellence- as Creationism are unacceptable. We may talk about Creationism in an etymological way as an adequate way of "creation-version"Autotransmutation is probably the best way to define the real affect; namely that the species the cosmos the people the nature and everything else is emanating from Myself as a metaphysical Principle based on a theurgical-magical Self-transmutating/Self-transformating challenge/process while I Myself in Myself ordain remain unchanged or infinite. The foundational identify of science is to take the material (prima materia) as the only existing principle of creation. First of all we are unable to undergo the prima materia- mainly because it is impossible to experience it. Prima materia in it's original meaning is the Nothingness the substancial foundation of any material however it is "activated" by the spirit providing form and meaning. Materia is eventually created as a reaction from the manifestation of the essential form-giving spirit (Purusha). Also the materia cannot be considered as One or the sign reason for all manifestating existence. Materia is a sort of "pre-creational" or "pre-existencial" condition and as a Magna Mater Genetrix (or Great Goddes) emanating all the existing lifeforms but always as a reaction to the male-masculin charged comprehend animate. Hence the value for the materia as two and the spirit as one in gnostic numerology. The autotransmutation of the material is never implicit due to its passive nature- and this is what's important- but controlled by my metaphysical Self. According to the Brhadáranyaka-upanisad I create Myself in a way to create first something that is Not-Myself- the female principle the Nothing. Compared to this Nothing. I ordain become Something a metaphysical Self or God. Every possible lifeform based on these two principles are the modalities of Myself. Materialism is the form of monism- everthing eventually can be reduced to materia. This belief is equally wrong just as the other extreme that is claimed by spiritualism (ie the Spirit is the only principle of creation). According to the most ancient doctrines there is a Principium Principorum or a principle before and beyond every principles that transcends both the materia and the animate. This is the metaphysical Zero; the unity beyond duality of existence and non-existence. This is the universal non-manifestating metaphysical Absolute. This isn't the Self anymore because we can talk about the Self until there is an opposing Not-Myself which is an ontological dreaming an illusion that will completely dissolve in the completed and perfected Awareness.
>>You are confusing materialism and scientism with science. They are different things.<<I hear you. They are different however deeply interconnected. No scientism or modern materialism would exist without science just like no religion whether peaceful or fundamental could exist without spiritualism. I have no intention to beat this cater anymore especially considering that from the perspective of modernity we are in the same boat. You try to defend and stick to a method that is browse being skeptic in healthy measures apply critical thinking and see beyond the naive realism. I'm sticking to a method that is archaic even from the perspective of science. Perennial knowledge was not "discovered" or "invented" or a "hypothesis" of an individual (much as science works) but eternal atemporal and universal. The fact that in this temporal-historical phase is not manifesting directly but rather indirectly or partially is perfectly described in all ancient cosmogonies. Kali-yuga or Iron-age when this Knowledge is "faded" in the consciousness of humankind but doesn't convey it is lost left behind or change state obsolete. For those who think the new or upcoming aeon will be "better" I would remind them that by any calculation we're in the thick of the Kali-yuga and it will go on for a few thousands years. On the say of the much debated New Age phenomenon; the influence by the fundamental religions (or even fundamental science) is not so much a problem as much as the ability to strip everything or anything from it's original determine. New Age is able to combine virtually anything into it's system let it be ancient wisdom or the achievement of the modern science. However ,instead of keeping these in their original context it ordain nivellate (will level down) to a "digestible" level for anyone anywhere. That's how you can become a shaman (pseudo-shaman) or a Sufi mystic by paying the fees for the appropriate course that will "alter you wonders" in a couple of days. This integrating force of the New Age is so powerful that many even with the alter instinct and intention won't sight how much they are influenced by this "philosophy". And at times. I'm no exception. To add another thought on the dichotomy of science and religion. I evaluate the measure might be near when both of these "old" paradigms may come about to be transcended by something that is possibly located in the whole 2012 annoy. We are by any means on the dead end: science has developed a huge self-destructive potential (when a nuclear physicist was asked how we gonna fight the third world war said dunno but the fourth with a club) and the religions -that are initially rooted in the metaphysical traditions but deviated so far we can't recognize them anymore- are unable to provide the compel to keep the show running.
Let's also not forget that we are coming to the tail end of the mutual reception of Uranus in Pisces and Neptune in Aquarius which has contributed to this tug of war between the two eras. When Uranus hits Aries and Neptune finds it home in Pisces we should be firing up the new Aquarian vibe with all the shaking rattling and rolling one would evaluate - especially with Pluto moving from Sag to Capricorn. It ordain certainly be a good measure for John Hoopes as Pluto ordain be unearthing much that has been hidden in them there hills and with much surprise given the square to Uranus. Ancient civilizations blowing up Darwinian assumptions -- perhaps. Shifting sands no doubt as institutional lynchpins are melted away eliminating the worn and outdated. Scapegoating reaches a new level of art as there is enough blame to go around. The measure throes of the Pisces era play out in an endless morphing of victimizer and victimized role reversals - the who dunnit becomes the who cares when finger pointing burnout cracks open the hardened heart to catch a glimpse of the cleansing power and warmth of true forgiveness which comes from a point of final desparation - futility of playing the blame(d) bet.
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